Pray for our Troops (284 views) Subscribe   
  From:  David (DavidABrown)    1/11/2003 7:57 pm  
To:  ALL   (1 of 47)  
 
  530.1  
 
Pray for our Troops and that we will loose no one this time around.
Please send this on after a short prayer.
Prayer for our soldiers.
"Lord, hold our troops in your loving hands.
Protect them as they protect us. Bless them
and their families for the selfless acts they
perform for us in our time of need. I ask this
in the name of Jesus, our Lord and Savior.
Amen."
Prayer Wheel:  When you receive this, please stop for a moment and say a prayer for our troops.
 


David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
www.BasicChristian.org

 
  
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  From:  Diana (LadyChurch)   1/20/2003 5:03 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (2 of 47)  
 
  530.2 in reply to 530.1  
 
Instead of praying why don't we send some good thoughts to the WAR mongers; the leaders that send military action in the first place? 
They don't need to send them there to kill more people. Isn't killing un-Christian? 

Diana 

 
  
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  From:  robertsteel   1/23/2003 11:06 am  
To:  Diana (LadyChurch)   (3 of 47)  
 
  530.3 in reply to 530.2  
 
Fear not - there will be no war 
France and Germany will veto it 
  
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  From:  jrakken   1/29/2003 3:42 am  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (4 of 47)  
 
  530.4 in reply to 530.1  
 
Hey, I said a prayer for the soldiers that are going to war, but i shouldn't have to because they shouldn't be going to war in the first place...I know its not really their falt though. 
  
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  From:  jrakken   1/29/2003 3:47 am  
To:  Diana (LadyChurch)   (5 of 47)  
 
  530.5 in reply to 530.2  
 
You're right, ppl shouldn't be sent out to kill (or be killed) but that just seems to be what Bush wants... 
  
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  From:  Nlitnd1   1/29/2003 3:50 pm  
To:  jrakken   (6 of 47)  
 
  530.6 in reply to 530.5  
 
You are incredibly right and thank you for voicing your opinion! 
If we were actually attacked by Iraq, then yes we should retaliate. 

That is not the case though. Here Bush is saying lets attack Iraq before they attack us. That is hypocritical of what he is saying. We then become the ones attacking, we become their terrorist. Hey they got lives just like us. They have nice lives, nice homes, nice cars, nice jobs. Many like Americans like their leader. Where is the proof that Iraq will attack America, there is none. We have been fed a pile of bologna from the media. 

We can pray for our troops, but if we go to war, praying will not stop the slaughter of our young men and women. This war is not in God's will. This war is Israel's war and we should not have anything to do with it. Why should good Americans die for someone eles war? Those that want to tie this in with Bible prophecy are wrong, this does not tie in. It is impossible that it ties in. We should pray yes, PRAY AGAINST GOING TO WAR!!
 
  
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  From:  Diana (LadyChurch)   1/29/2003 4:58 pm  
To:  jrakken   (7 of 47)  
 
  530.7 in reply to 530.5  
 
It's sad that one more time, 'one' man is able to lead an entire Nation to follow him... that's evil! 
Diana 

 
  
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  From:  Hamilton109   1/29/2003 5:26 pm  
To:  jrakken   (8 of 47)  
 
  530.8 in reply to 530.5  
 
Rom 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: 

Rom 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to [execute] wrath upon him that doeth evil. 
--- care to revise your comments in light of this? That last part especially flies in the face of the unbiblical pacifist sentiment that is espoused by so many.
 
  
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  From:  jrakken   1/29/2003 5:51 pm  
To:  Nlitnd1   (9 of 47)  
 
  530.9 in reply to 530.6  
 
WOW! Heres a shock! The ppl in this forum seem to agree with me...In most of the Christian forums that i go to the ppl are war mongers. 
Heres a link to my forum, it's mainly for teens but every1 is welcome... http://forums.delphiforums.com/Teensforthelord/start 
You and anyone else who reads this is quite welcome to go there and help me win some arguments. Or you could just go there to promote war if you feel the need to...but i wouldn't if i were you... 

 
  
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  From:  jrakken   1/29/2003 5:55 pm  
To:  Diana (LadyChurch)   (10 of 47)  
 
  530.10 in reply to 530.7  
 
Yes well, there are those who have great influence over the president...they are more to blame then anyone... 
  
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  From:  jrakken   1/29/2003 5:58 pm  
To:  Hamilton109   (11 of 47)  
 
  530.11 in reply to 530.8  
 
err...call me stupid, but im not quite sure what you are trying to say... 
  
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  From:  Nlitnd1   1/29/2003 6:23 pm  
To:  jrakken   (12 of 47)  
 
  530.12 in reply to 530.9  
 
Most Christians see the war with Iraq as a fulfillment of prophecy. Why? Because it is taking place in the Middle East. Why? Because somewhere over there is the Holy Land, where I don't know. The facts are that this war and any future wars will have nothing to do with Bible prophecy. Even if it did pertain to Bible prophecy would that permit a child of God to support a war that is wrong? Absolutely not. Take a real good look at who benefits from this war and you will quickly see who is behind it. We have been programmed to not give a hoot over the world condition because we have been taught that it is all points towards prophecy and that these things must happen so that Jesus can come for His people. Bible prophecy if you study it correctly does not say any of this. Bible prophecy pertains to God's people and only God's people not a war in the middle of the desert, not someones agenda. We have to learn to stand up for what is right, we must get to a point in our lives where we decide to rid the lies and find the truth!  
  
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  From:  jrakken   1/29/2003 9:14 pm  
To:  Nlitnd1   (13 of 47)  
 
  530.13 in reply to 530.12  
 
Great work...even though i don't agree with EVERYTHING that you say, that was still a great post...you should come to my forum. Well, its actually my sisters but, i got my own corner there. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edited 1/30/2003 12:24:11 AM ET by JRAKKEN 
  
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  From:  Hamilton109   1/30/2003 8:31 am  
To:  jrakken   (14 of 47)  
 
  530.14 in reply to 530.11  
 
The knee-jerk reaction that the use of force is always outside the will of God is simply not supported. Seeing a situation that may require warfare is not to be equated with warmongering. There are times when the appointed ruler is to use his sword as an agent of justice. 
You and I may quibble as to whether Iraq is a case where this is so, but any sort of blanket statements against warfare and those who see waging war, are both inane and unbiblical.
 
  
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  From:  Hamilton109   1/30/2003 8:38 am  
To:  Nlitnd1   (15 of 47)  
 
  530.15 in reply to 530.12  
 
Gee, I don't know any Christians who think this. Most Christians I know simply see it as a case of fighting a cruel psychopath who not only has killed many people over the years, but has ambitions to kill many more. 
The only moral error I see is the one "George Sr." made in not making sure Saddamn was dead back in '91. Had he done so, many lives, both Iraqi and American would have been spared.
 
  
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  From:  Nlitnd1   1/30/2003 9:40 am  
To:  Hamilton109   (16 of 47)  
 
  530.16 in reply to 530.15  
 
There was no moral error. If you had done your homework you would have found out that there were statements made while GHB was still in office concerning the need to keep Sadaam alive for future use. Seems to me like this is the future. 
Explain to me how you KNOW for a FACT that he is a raging psychopath and a murderer. See from where I am at I can neither say that he is or is not. Because I do not know for a fact. Neither does most of America. Who is fed nothing but lies from the television. 

What is the difference here in the US? We have murders take place, we have starvation, we have elderly who barely make it from one day to the next. Oh by the way we have quite the arsenal of nuclear weapons. Would not another country be justified for the same reasons to take us out of the equation. Or does each country have their God given right to defend their country? The real answer if Iraq needs to get rid of their weapons then ALL countries need to get rid of their weapons, then you can garantee peace. 

What we are doing over there is wrong, I don't care what excuse anyone comes up with. Unless they do something to us, we have no right to start anything. 

Peoples lives will be destroyed and more than likely Sadaam will continue to live for yet another future use. Just like our CIA trained friend Osama Bin Laden.
 
  
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  From:  Hamilton109   1/30/2003 1:14 pm  
To:  Nlitnd1   (17 of 47)  
 
  530.17 in reply to 530.16  
 
>>>There was no moral error. If you had done your homework you would have found out that there were statements made while GHB was still in office concerning the need to keep Sadaam alive for future use. Seems to me like this is the future.<<< 
Even if I accept what you say is true (which I do not) how was Bush keeping him alive not a moral error? Your statements make no sense. 

>>>Explain to me how you KNOW for a FACT that he is a raging psychopath and a murderer.<<< 

Because there has been lots of documentation of it. Who has not seen the bodies of Kurds decaying in the streets because of his gas attacks? Oh year, that was all staged by the CIA (please!) 

<<<See from where I am at I can neither say that he is or is not. Because I do not know for a fact. Neither does most of America. Who is fed nothing but lies from the television.>>> 

That there are lies on TV I will not dispute, but the assumption that everything we see is a lie is just that, and unproven assumption. 

<<<What is the difference here in the US? We have murders take place,>>> 

None that are govenment sponsered. 

<<<we have starvation,>>> 

Not as public policy. Public policy is to try to provide relief. 

>>>we have elderly who barely make it from one day to the next.<<< 

Not as public policy. Public policy is to try to provide relief. 

>>>Oh by the way we have quite the arsenal of nuclear weapons.<<< 

Thank God we do. 

>>>Would not another country be justified for the same reasons to take us out of the equation. Or does each country have their God given right to defend their country? The real answer if Iraq needs to get rid of their weapons then ALL countries need to get rid of their weapons, then you can garantee peace.<<< 

LOL, you are a real live Hippie! Yeehah, I thought all of you guys finally grew up! I hope some cryptozoologist tags you so that you will not become extinct! 

>>>What we are doing over there is wrong, I don't care what excuse anyone comes up with. Unless they do something to us, we have no right to start anything.<<< 

Are you suggesting that he has not been involved in supporting terrorism? Are you suggesting that even if that were not true (laughable on its face) that we should wait until we have been hit by smallpox before we act? 

Please tell me how many American dead bodies you are willing to look at on TV before it is okay for us to act? 

Oh yeah, dead people on TV don't count, because they are just lies. I suppose that if you went to NYC you would see the twin towers still standing. Lemme tell you that I smelled the smoke from that for MONTHS after they went down, and there was nothing false or theoretical about it. 

Reality check #1 There are evil people out there who CANNOT be reasoned with. They must be stopped one way or another. 

Reality check #2 Rulers have a responsibility to protect their people and to restrain evil. 

Reality check #3 Sometimes, as in WW2, the ONLY way to do that is to wage war and kill the agents of evil. 

Get a grip.
 
  
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  From:  Nlitnd1   1/30/2003 1:36 pm  
To:  Hamilton109   (18 of 47)  
 
  530.18 in reply to 530.17  
 
Calm down. You'll probably get your way anyhow seeing that there is no reasoning with people like me. 
Ya no I served in the military, I had your viewpoints. I don't anymore because I value human life. We will go to war, I garantee it. Bush and the rest of the supporters will get their way. He wouldn't rant and rave about it everyday, pounding it into our heads if it isn't going to come to pass. 

My point is hippyish or not is that our young people, dads, moms, grandchildren are going to die, prayers no prayers, support or no support there will be massacres. The Iraqies will die to, these are normal people, normal lives. They look different than most Americans but they are no different. They want to live normal lives too. Thats all I am saying. You'll get your wish and you'll be happy, just be happy you don't have to do the dirty work. After the dirty work is done don't be surprised if they retaliate, because then they might have a real reason to do so. Don't think they can't, not if they REALLY were behind 911. IF they did it once, certainly twice can be accomplished, specially now that our gaurds are down. You take care now I got some daisys to pick.
 
  
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  From:  Strings17   1/30/2003 6:28 pm  
To:  jrakken   (19 of 47)  
 
  530.19 in reply to 530.5  
 
And just what do you know that Bush does'nt?who briefed you? Sean Penn or perhaps Susan Sarandon or some other useless entertainer/foreign policy expert?who is it in the CIA that gives you the scoop.Bush is only the president of the United States surely he does not have accsess to the information you have.Will it take a loved one dying in a terrorist act to convince you we are at war already the kind of hit and run war that will go on forever unless something is done.Since you so are so eager to judge the motives of others i will judge yours,you are a typical whiny spoiled American who does'nt want the harsh realty of evil in the world to rain on your parade so you parrot the peacnik party line all the while living under the protection of the ones you criticise and judge so harshly.I for one am glad that we dont have a president thats suits you in the white house so that maybe there is some hope that we will defeat this enemy,poor George he cares more for the present crisis than where his next physical gratification is coming from,how unpopular that makes him. 
  
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   From:  jrakken   1/30/2003 10:13 pm  
To:  Hamilton109   (20 of 47)  
 
  530.20 in reply to 530.14  
 
err...fair enough then... 
  
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 Pray for our Troops (286 views) Subscribe   
  From:  jrakken   1/30/2003 10:33 pm  
To:  Strings17   (21 of 47)  
 
  530.21 in reply to 530.19  
 
You don't seem to understand that America could attack and destroy Iraq and all the other countries that oppose it, but that wouldn't stop terrorist attacks from killing thousands of people. These people are already in America and other countries and would be more then happy to kill themselves if it meant that they would devestate the country that destroyed theirs. There are solutions other then war...but you don't seem to get that... 
Oh, and another thing, I live in Australia, not America. But seeing that you seem to know EVERYTHING, im sure that you really knew that...
 
  
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  From:  Hamilton109   1/31/2003 9:38 am  
To:  Nlitnd1   (22 of 47)  
 
  530.22 in reply to 530.18  
 
>>Calm down.<< 
YOU telling ME to calm down does have a certain entertainment value. 

>>You'll probably get your way anyhow seeing that there is no reasoning with people like me. << 

I don't think I could disagree with that, especially the last part. 

>>Ya no I served in the military, I had your viewpoints. I don't anymore because I value human life.<< 

In there is the unwarranted assumption that those who oppose war in all instances value life more than those of us who see war as an occasional necessity. 

Neither history nor scripture support such a contention. 

>>We will go to war, I garantee it. Bush and the rest of the supporters will get their way. He wouldn't rant and rave about it everyday, pounding it into our heads if it isn't going to come to pass. 

My point is hippyish or not is that our young people, dads, moms, grandchildren are going to die, prayers no prayers, support or no support there will be massacres.<< 

Unwarranted assumption. WE didn't slaughter innocents last time, the only massacres were done (and are being done) BY Saddamns loyal troops. 

People are dying like flies over there specifically because we failed to kill HIM in 1991, and don't give me any mindless drivel that the suffering over their is anything but his doing. 

>> The Iraqies will die to, these are normal people, normal lives.<< 

But not because we target civilians. 

>>They look different than most Americans but they are no different. They want to live normal lives too. Thats all I am saying.<< 

Great. I don't disagree with you but that doesn't speak to the point, does it? 

Q: Will going to war with Iraq make us safer? 
A: Almost Definitely. 

Q: Will going to war with Iraq make the average IRAQI safer? 
A: Definitely. No almost to it. 

Q: So what *rational* reason would anyone have for NOT supporting a war? 
A: (Dunno, I sure can't come up with one.) 

>>You'll get your wish and you'll be happy, just be happy you don't have to do the dirty work. After the dirty work is done don't be surprised if they retaliate, because then they might have a real reason to do so. Don't think they can't, not if they REALLY were behind 911. IF they did it once, certainly twice can be accomplished, specially now that our gaurds are down. You take care now I got some daisys to pick.<< 

Oh, so you are suggesting that if we just ignore them they WON'T keep up their struggle against us? 

They MAY hit us again, I am virtually certain of it, but that will happen whether we wage this war or just adopt an appeasment stratagy. 

 
  
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  From:  Strings17   1/31/2003 3:07 pm  
To:  jrakken   (23 of 47)  
 
  530.23 in reply to 530.21  
 
I understand perfectly,even though you dont live in America you think you know enough to judge our president,now who's the know it all,only countries of significance endure great numbers of foreign critics.I dont care what happens in Australia,certainly not enough to judge its leaders and their motives. 
  
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  From:  jrakken   1/31/2003 11:47 pm  
To:  Strings17   (24 of 47)  
 
  530.24 in reply to 530.23  
 
Yes but what America does effects all countries. And what you said in your last post ("I dont care what happens in Australia") is just the kind of arrogant additude that a lot of Americans seem to have. And don't forget that if America goes to war then there is a good chance that Australia will go as well... 
  
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  From:  Strings17   2/1/2003 8:27 am  
To:  jrakken   (25 of 47)  
 
  530.25 in reply to 530.24  
 
It might surprise you to know that i for the most part support America staying out of the affairs of other countries.The problem is that the rest of the world wants America's power and resources to be at their disposal to be used when and where and for whom they see fit,to fight their wars that will save their hide and preserve their borders.We are supposed to be willing to sacrifice money and lives for their benefit when called.My father is dead because some foreign represenative convinced our president at the time to fight his countries war,not because there would have been any real consequences for America but because his little hell hole claimed to be a democracy and it was our duty to defend them, today that country protest against us and calls us evil.The best example this type of thinking occured recently when Bush announced 5 billion dollars in aid to Africa to fight aids only to have the idiot otherwise known as Nelson Mandela say that we are evil and commiting "atrocities" all the tax money that will be confiscated from hard working Americans will go to people who are so hopelessly and patheticly ignorant and backward that they are literaly screwing themselves to death,i wonder what Mr Mandela'share of the loot will be. The attack that occured on 9-11 was an act of war by an enemy that has sworn to destroy us and has said many times it will do it any way possible.The fact is had this attack occured in any other country the missles and bullets would already be flying and Washington would be full of foreigners asking Bush to give money and lives just like so many times before,its not them so they couldnt care less,if an American can fight and die for another nation they can damn well do it for America.The United States is a nation of people who's lives matter as much as anyone elses and when in danger it is just as much the duty of the government to defend them,especialy when those people have been called on so many times to defend others and have pictures of long dead loved ones to show for it. 
  
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  From:  Strings17   2/1/2003 8:38 am  
To:  jrakken   (26 of 47)  
 
  530.26 in reply to 530.24  
 
Maybe what you perceive as arrogance is simply being fed up with being constantly called on in other people's time of need and being told to go to hell when your time comes. 
  
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  From:  jrakken   2/1/2003 4:25 pm  
To:  Strings17   (27 of 47)  
 
  530.27 in reply to 530.25  
 
A lot of the time when America goes to war in another country, the other country doesn't even ask for help first. America just goes there so that they can display supiriority by beating up little countries... 
  
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  From:  Strings17   2/1/2003 6:38 pm  
To:  jrakken   (28 of 47)  
 
  530.28 in reply to 530.27  
 
Yeah right,not a history major i guess. 
  
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  From:  jrakken   2/1/2003 8:03 pm  
To:  Strings17   (29 of 47)  
 
  530.29 in reply to 530.28  
 
You'd be surprised... 
  
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  From:  Strings17   2/2/2003 5:01 am  
To:  jrakken   (30 of 47)  
 
  530.30 in reply to 530.29  
 
I am never surprised when people criticise others without being in their shoes,no matter how much they think they know. 
  
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  From:  Nlitnd1   2/4/2003 11:26 am  
To:  Hamilton109   (31 of 47)  
 
  530.31 in reply to 530.22  
 
Sounds pretty much like you have issues. Maybe you can Q & A those voices in your little head and find out what your malfunction is. 
Tell ya what, I will let the whole thing drop if you pack your ditty bag and go join the troops. Put your *** on the line, then talk smack all day long. I doubt you will do that cause even the comfort of a cockroach ridden home is far more cushy than a trench. Why join the troops when we can watch them die on CNN, while we feed our fat faces. Its easy to say go gettem boys when we aint the ones doin the gettin. And don't give me any excuses that you are old and withered and crippled, if any one should go over there it should be YOU!!
 
  
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  From:  Hamilton109   2/4/2003 3:29 pm  
To:  jrakken   (32 of 47)  
 
  530.32 in reply to 530.27  
 
Oh please. This type of facile comments are easy to make but hard to back up with facts. 
  
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  From:  Hamilton109   2/4/2003 3:30 pm  
To:  jrakken   (33 of 47)  
 
  530.33 in reply to 530.29  
 
If you were a history major, I want to know where you got your degree so that I can sue them for malpractice. 
  
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  From:  Hamilton109   2/4/2003 3:49 pm  
To:  Nlitnd1   (34 of 47)  
 
  530.34 in reply to 530.31  
 
Yeah, that is good -- I offer you reasoned argument based in hard facts and you resort to ad hominim attacks. Typical liberal -- when you run out of ideas (and liberals run out of them often) start calling names. 
As for joining our troops, the local recruiter would laugh if I went down to join the Marines. IF someone said that I could be of some use to our nation in the military (they don't take guys over 35 into rifle companies) as some sort of desk jockey, I would even do that. 

OTOH, I have lots of family members who have in the past, and will in the future put their lives on the line. Currently I have relatives in the Marines, Air Force, and Navy. I have no wish for them to go in harms way but then, neither do I want to see more attacks on my country. 

Sadly, I would not be surprised if I wake up one morning to hear about an attack that makes 9/11 look like a warning shot. 

One day we may not have NYC anymore. 

One day we may face a plague of smallpox. 

Why? Because we will have been unwilling to face down evil enemies. We KNOW that our enemies have been agressively trying to obtain nukes, chemical weapons and bioweapons. This is not movietone news. Does any adult of sound mind doubt that if they COULD get a weapon of mass destruction here, that they WOULD? 

But you suggest the we wait until they CAN. 

BTW, lots of people have complained that the FBI and CIA had been unable to "connect the dots" but it seems that we have many more dots now than we did then, and guys like you cannot seem to connect them. 

I don't expect a rational answer from you, but go again and do some more name calling.
 
  
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  From:  jrakken   2/14/2003 1:26 am  
To:  Strings17   (35 of 47)  
 
  530.35 in reply to 530.30  
 
Why? Most people criticise Saddam without being in his shoes...and maybe they should, because he is a lunatic, but in his mind, he believes that he is right, and so does Bush...Does that make them very different? 
  
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  From:  jrakken   2/14/2003 1:32 am  
To:  Hamilton109   (36 of 47)  
 
  530.36 in reply to 530.33  
 
LOL-im not a history major, infact, im still in high school, in Australia. But i wasn't sure if i should've told that because then you would probably not even bother to listen to me...as you probably won't now...but it's not really my problem. 
I've done detailed research on the Vietnam war and other wars that America have participated in and haven't really seen them do much good in them... 
  
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  From:  Strings17   2/14/2003 5:43 am  
To:  jrakken   (37 of 47)  
 
  530.37 in reply to 530.35  
 
What you need to do is skip school and get a good hand drilling as punishment from one Husseins thugs then maybe you would see the difference. 
  
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  From:  Hamilton109   2/14/2003 8:22 am  
To:  jrakken   (38 of 47)  
 
  530.38 in reply to 530.36  
 
<<LOL-im not a history major, infact, im still in high school, in Australia. But i wasn't sure if i should've told that because then you would probably not even bother to listen to me...as you probably won't now...but it's not really my problem.>> 
Ironically, I'm MORE willing to talk and listen. I cannot hold you to the same standard as someone who has actually earned a degree and has refused to look at the question from all sides. In subtle ways your instructors may manipulate your opinions by carefully crafting the diet of facts that you are offered. If anything, it gets WORSE when you go to university. 

If you are ever to be free of this type of manipulation, and very few people are, cultivate the habit early on of searching out the best advocates on each side of an issue. This takes work, but it beats being a slave to the prepackaged puke that is sometimes passed off as consensus opinion. 

<<I've done detailed research on the Vietnam war and other wars that America have participated in and haven't really seen them do much good in them...>> 

I would be interested in what you have read. 

I'll also offer an off the cuff refutation of what I am guessing that you have read. 

We pursued our war aims badly and executed it ineffectively. That is a far different statement than saying that the war was evil/ignoble. In Viet Nam we fought an enemy that was trying to subject people to a most repressive form of govenment. Communism, where ever it has been introduces has produced a harvest of poverty, fear and death. Viet Nam is no exception. When the U.S. failed to halt the NVA forces in there war of conquest, the aftermath was pain poverty and mass liquidations. 

People forget about liquidations in Laos and Viet Nam because they were drowed out by the roar of murder next door in the killing fields of the khmer rouge. Uncounted thousands of "Boat people" set to sea in frail boats overloaded with desperate people. If you look at some of the pictures you will notice that some of them have precious little freeboard (space between the water level and the top of the hull) in an area where tropical storms abound. 

Only people fleeing the most deperate despotism are going to play this type of "russian roulette" by getting on a boat under these condtions. 

So, America failed. The result was that people suffered and died in droves. That is NOT to say that the war caused those things. Communist govenments have generally been good at killing people no matter how they obtain power. 

Now, is the real question did America do no good in fighting this war because it should not have been fought? Or is it the case that we failed in that war and that was the real issue? 

There are lots of things written about the Korean war, but would the people in South Korea be better off if the U.S. troops stayed home in the forties and fifties? I cannot think that any rational person would say so. 

Should we have not fought in WW2? There were may strong isolationists in the US. If they had won the day America would have been even less prepared when war came, and we almost got into that war too late as it is. IF Japanese had simply decided to declare war on the British Empire and the Neatherlands, America might have gone to war reluctantly and divided (if at all) and Austrailia would almost certainly been over run, as it was it came within a hair's breadth of being invaded as it was. 

Just so you know, there was NOTHING inevitable about our victory in WW2, and changing very little, the Axis powers would have won and the world today would be unrecognizable. 

So, aren't you glad the US got into that war? 

One war that probably does fit the bill is WW1. Both sides in that war were morally bankrupt and the viscious treaty that was signed virtually ensued that the world would be plunged into WW2. 

Well, I hope I have given you some things to think about. I hope to hear from you again soon.
 
  
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  From:  jrakken   2/15/2003 12:01 am  
To:  Strings17   (39 of 47)  
 
  530.39 in reply to 530.37  
 
You would like to get rid of me, wouldn't you? Well, you're kinda in luck because i only have half as much time as i used to online each day, and i don't intend to spend it here being criticised. 
But still, i will do my best to reply to anything said to me... 

Of course there are differences between them, and what Hussein and he's men do is horrible, but American soldiers have being known to do some pretty bad things in other countries... 

 
  
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   From:  jrakken   2/15/2003 12:29 am  
To:  Hamilton109   (40 of 47)  
 
  530.40 in reply to 530.38  
 
Sorry that i can't make a longer reply to this, but my time is limited... 
What i learnt about the Vietnam War can be basically summed up like this: The Vietnam war was a futile wastes of time and lives. 
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I'll post here again later, ok? I'm just busy now... 
 
  
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From:  Strings17   2/15/2003 3:18 am  
To:  jrakken   (41 of 47)  
 
  530.41 in reply to 530.39  
 
Being criticised? oh, you mean what you do.It can be difficult to receive but most dont mind giving it. 
  
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  From:  jrakken   2/15/2003 3:54 am  
To:  Strings17   (42 of 47)  
 
  530.42 in reply to 530.41  
 
Whatever... 
  
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  From:  Hamilton109   2/25/2003 2:34 pm  
To:  jrakken   (43 of 47)  
 
  530.43 in reply to 530.40  
 
>>Sorry that i can't make a longer reply to this, but my time is limited... 
What i learnt about the Vietnam War can be basically summed up like this: The Vietnam war was a futile wastes of time and lives. 
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I'll post here again later, ok? I'm just busy now...<< 
Yeah, that is great, but it doesn't really speak to the issues of the morality of fighting the war, etc. 

After all, if we had been as incompetent in WW2 as we were in Viet Nam, we would have lost (and COULD have lost) but does that mean that we should not have fought? 

You might have then said "World War II was a futile wastes of time and lives." And in one sense you would have been correct, but it wouldn't speak to the issues, would it. 

 
  
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  From:  jrakken   2/25/2003 10:51 pm  
To:  Hamilton109   (44 of 47)  
 
  530.44 in reply to 530.43  
 
Well, i'm sorry that i haven't being able to reply properly yet... 
But i think that America had a much better reason to go to war in WW2 then what they did in Vietnam, and maybe thats why it wasn't as much of a tragedy...for America that is...but as for Japan...America had no right to use the Atom bomb like that... 
  
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  From:  Hamilton109   2/26/2003 12:08 pm  
To:  jrakken   (45 of 47)  
 
  530.45 in reply to 530.44  
 
<<<Well, i'm sorry that i haven't being able to reply properly yet... 
But i think that America had a much better reason to go to war in WW2 then what they did in Vietnam, and maybe thats why it wasn't as much of a tragedy...for America that is>>> 
Perhaps we fought better because it was a genuine fight for survival for America, but our own personal survival does not necessarily speak to the moral issues involved. 

<<<...but as for Japan...America had no right to use the Atom bomb like that...>>> 

All I will say is this, even after we used two atomic weapons, there was still significant question WITHIN JAPAN as to whether or not they would actually surrender, or wage a national war of suicide. Had America not used those weapons an invasion that would have cost MILLIONS of lives would have been fought. 

The case against the use of nukes in Japan is hardly solid, but the case FOR the use of nukes is pretty good. After all, Sr. Japanese military leaders agree that the use of the atom bomb was the decideing factor in ending the war when it did.
 
  
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  From:  jrakken   2/26/2003 10:58 pm  
To:  Hamilton109   (46 of 47)  
 
  530.46 in reply to 530.45  
 
Well...it's obvious that the lives of Americans are more important to you then anyone esles...but i hope i'm wrong about that. 
What if North Korea dropped a nuke or two on a couple of well populated American cities in retaliation to an attack on them by America...how different would that be to what America did to Japan? Especially if there is still fighting going on in Iraq... 
  
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   From:  Hamilton109   2/27/2003 9:55 am  
To:  jrakken   (47 of 47)  
 
  530.47 in reply to 530.46  
 
Hello? 
JAPANESE estimates of the death toll for an invasion was that it would be four (4) million Japanese dead. So how does this state that we don't care about enemy casulties? 

OTOH, war is ABOUT causing enemy casualties. Hopefully the minimum amount of casualites to obtain victory and genuine peace, but I am not shy about saying that in war you have to kill people. 

As for North Korea, we have not launched a war of imperial conquest on them via a sneak attack, that is how it is different. That you can even come up with that as a comparison is strange.
 
  
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